User talk:Jean Abou Samra: Difference between revisions

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:::::Thanks, I've added these fonts on the server as a workaround. The snippet now displays correctly. [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 09:13, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

::::::Great, thanks! -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 10:50, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

== This wiki has no templates ==

Would it be ok if I created some templates? And I am missing several AddOns, CharInsert would be nice for editing, SyntaxHighlight, Scribunto. I am running a rather private Lilypond Wiki in German for several years and have some experience with Wikis, [[User:Manuela|Manuela]] ([[User talk:Manuela|talk]]) 15:13, 18 December 2025 (UTC)

:Feel free to create all kinds of pages, including templates. However, I'd prefer if they were created as needed for specific pages (i.e., don't create templates "for the future" that aren't used on any pages). Also, I don't see much that could be factored between pages so what's your use case? In particular, please don't create templates similar [[wikipedia:Template:Em|<code><nowiki>{{em|...}}</nowiki></code> on Wikipedia]] that add friction to the editing process for a negligible payoff.

:I haven't installed the extensions you requested because:

:# I don't see any special characters that would be needed particularly often on this wiki specifically, and I'd rather not maintain a general list of special characters, this is the job of system-level input methods like Compose keys and character map apps IMHO.

:# It wouldn't make much sense to have syntax highlighting only for the few code snippets that use <code><nowiki><pre></nowiki></code>, as opposed to <code><nowiki><lilypond></nowiki></code>. However, if someone submits a change for adding syntax highlighting to the output of <code><nowiki><lilypond></nowiki></code> in the [https://gitlab.com/jeanas/LilyWiki extension] that defines this tag for the wiki, I'll be happy to review it.

:# Scribunto has security implications (e.g., the need to keep Lua updated), so I'd rather only install it if there is a compelling use case for that.

:[[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 21:10, 18 December 2025 (UTC)

::Thank you for your answer. You have a point with security issues, SyntaxHighlight needs Scribunto. There is no special language support for Lilypond anyway, I use Latex, better than nothing. Your installation has to offer proc open, otherwise Scribunto is not working. I have not found a single provider which allows this.

::Maybe I am missing something in my preferences, when editing I do not see anything that supports editing, not even the option to insert links, maybe it's because I don't use the visual editor, I like "pure" editing as it is in Lilypond. CharInsert offers support for Wiki syntax, including tags like <pre>, all combinations of {} and so on.

::Greetings from Austria, [[User:Manuela|Manuela]] ([[User talk:Manuela|talk]]) 03:17, 19 December 2025 (UTC)

:::[off-topic] Where in Austria? Greetings from Kufstein :-) -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 05:15, 19 December 2025 (UTC)

::::Niederösterreich, nordöstlich von Wien (Bezirk Gänserndorf) [[User:Manuela|Manuela]] ([[User talk:Manuela|talk]]) 15:21, 19 December 2025 (UTC)

:::I don't think SyntaxHighlight needs Scribunto. It uses Pygments, which is a Python (not Lua) library (of which I actually am technically a maintainer, although I've been inactive lately by lack of time). It certainly needs something like <code>exec</code>/<code>proc_open</code>, but this wiki doesn't use a "managed" MediaWiki install (where the provider installs things for you, à la "Wordpress in one click"), it's on a VPS on which I have root access and administrate things myself, so I can install and configure anything (and <code>exec</code> is already being used to run LilyPond). The real problem is that the LilyPond code snippets are mostly added through a the special, non-standard parser tag <code><nowiki><lilypond></nowiki></code> and so the extension I wrote that defines this tag would need to support syntax highlighting.

:::Regarding the editor toolbar, it sounds like what you want is not CharInsert but [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikiEditor WikiEditor], which I've just added. [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 16:15, 19 December 2025 (UTC)

::::PS: I also meant to write that Pygments supports LilyPond. (I implemented this a few years ago.) [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 16:26, 19 December 2025 (UTC)

:::::Apropos Pygments: I've submitted a [https://github.com/pygments/pygments/pull/2974 PR] to update LilyPond support some time ago. [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 17:38, 19 December 2025 (UTC)

::::Thank you for installing this extension, this is definitely an improvement. CharInsert is a different animal. Root access is of course best, but you have to do much administration. Usually root access is very expensive when you need a provider. A long time ago I have written a Lilypond extension myself on a home server in my local network.

::::Just in case you are asking who I am, I wrote LSR 1040, 1042, 1043, 1044 (when I remember right) and was involved in 1066 and 1067. [[User:Manuela|Manuela]] ([[User talk:Manuela|talk]]) 19:34, 19 December 2025 (UTC)

:::::I've discovered a potential reason for activating Scribunto: Right now, I'm using the <code>query</code> MediaWiki API to download snippets for <code>makelsr.pl</code>. However, <code>query</code> doesn't expand templates. This means that I have to call the <code>expandtemplates</code> API, sending the unexpanded page to the Wiki server to get an expanded version back.

:::::The Skribunto interface provides [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto/Lua_reference_manual#frame:preprocess <code>frame:preprocess</code>], which seems to unify the abovementioned two calls into a single one (I haven't tested it). Maybe this can be configured to not use Lua, in case this simplifies things. What do you think? -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 14:56, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

::::::I don't see a problem with one extra API call per page to expand templates. Also, the function you link is a Lua API, for use in Lua modules running on the wiki, so I don't get how you want to use it outside. [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 22:02, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

:::::::OK, <code>expandtemplates</code> it is then :-) -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 23:30, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

== MediaWiki variables for current stable and unstable LilyPond versions ==

Jean,

what do you think about adding [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Variable MediaWiki variables] that indicate the current stable and unstable LilyPond versions (without the ‘micro’ value)? I suggest

<nowiki>{{LILYSTABLE}}</nowiki> → 2.24

<nowiki>{{LILYDEVEL}}</nowiki> → 2.25

and maybe

<nowiki>{{LILYSTABLEDOC}} → https://lilypond.org/docs/{{LILYSTABLE}}/Documentation</nowiki>

<nowiki>{{LILYDEVELDOC}} → https://lilypond.org/docs/{{LILYDEVEL}}/Documentation</nowiki>

Such variables would reduce maintainance of yet-to-be-written templates. In particular, I would like to add <code><nowiki>Template:convert-ly</nowiki></code>: it would tell users that the snippet in question needs conversion with <code>convert-ly</code> (showing a link to the documentation) for newer versions. -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 05:46, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

:Sounds OK to me. [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 08:34, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

::Great! However, it seems to me that you have to add some piece of PHP code to do that... This means I cannot do it by myself. -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 07:00, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

:::Ah, do you need them to be variables as opposed to templates? [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 08:30, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

::::Do I? I honestly don't know. Please advise. -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 12:36, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

:::::Please try templates first. Seems to me that the use case for variables is when you want programmatically generated stuff like the current date. [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 19:40, 30 December 2025 (UTC)

::::::It seems to work fine, thanks! However, for more serious template handling I think that the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions ParserFunctions] extension would be necessary. -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 06:43, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Added. [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 08:01, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Thanks! -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 14:41, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

== Spam users ==

Jean, what shall we do with spam users like User:JoleenStallings? Shall we remove them immediately? While they don't do harm to the Wiki, they are still polluting the namespace... -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 05:21, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

:Yes. I've just removed all their user pages and blocked them and their IP addresses. [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 13:57, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

::OK, thanks. -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 16:03, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

:::Obviously the spammers have discovered this wiki. IMHO there is only one solution. Creation of new users only with verification of an admin and editing only for registered users [[User:Manuela|Manuela]] ([[User talk:Manuela|talk]]) 19:53, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

::::Well, it's not that bad: currently, the situation can be handled manually quite easily (by watching the atom feed of this Wiki and quickly removing spam users). However, if this becomes too much of a burden, some additional measures must be taken. -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 05:17, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

@@ Line 86: / Line 86: @@
 :::::Thanks, I've added these fonts on the server as a workaround. The snippet now displays correctly. [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 09:13, 13 December 2025 (UTC)
 ::::::Great, thanks! -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 10:50, 13 December 2025 (UTC)
+== This wiki has no templates ==
+Would it be ok if I created some templates? And I am missing several AddOns, CharInsert would be nice for editing, SyntaxHighlight, Scribunto. I am running a rather private Lilypond Wiki in German for several years and have some experience with Wikis, [[User:Manuela|Manuela]] ([[User talk:Manuela|talk]]) 15:13, 18 December 2025 (UTC)
+:Feel free to create all kinds of pages, including templates. However, I'd prefer if they were created as needed for specific pages (i.e., don't create templates "for the future" that aren't used on any pages). Also, I don't see much that could be factored between pages so what's your use case? In particular, please don't create templates similar [[wikipedia:Template:Em|<code><nowiki>{{em|...}}</nowiki></code> on Wikipedia]] that add friction to the editing process for a negligible payoff.
+:I haven't installed the extensions you requested because:
+:# I don't see any special characters that would be needed particularly often on this wiki specifically, and I'd rather not maintain a general list of special characters, this is the job of system-level input methods like Compose keys and character map apps IMHO.
+:# It wouldn't make much sense to have syntax highlighting only for the few code snippets that use <code><nowiki><pre></nowiki></code>, as opposed to <code><nowiki><lilypond></nowiki></code>. However, if someone submits a change for adding syntax highlighting to the output of <code><nowiki><lilypond></nowiki></code> in the [https://gitlab.com/jeanas/LilyWiki extension] that defines this tag for the wiki, I'll be happy to review it.
+:# Scribunto has security implications (e.g., the need to keep Lua updated), so I'd rather only install it if there is a compelling use case for that.
+:[[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 21:10, 18 December 2025 (UTC)
+::Thank you for your answer. You have a point with security issues, SyntaxHighlight needs Scribunto. There is no special language support for Lilypond anyway, I use Latex, better than nothing. Your installation has to offer proc open, otherwise Scribunto is not working. I have not found a single provider which allows this.
+::Maybe I am missing something in my preferences, when editing I do not see anything that supports editing, not even the option to insert links, maybe it's because I don't use the visual editor, I like "pure" editing as it is in Lilypond. CharInsert offers support for Wiki syntax, including tags like &lt;pre>, all combinations of {} and so on.
+::Greetings from Austria, [[User:Manuela|Manuela]] ([[User talk:Manuela|talk]]) 03:17, 19 December 2025 (UTC)
+:::[off-topic] Where in Austria?  Greetings from Kufstein :-) -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 05:15, 19 December 2025 (UTC)
+::::Niederösterreich, nordöstlich von Wien (Bezirk Gänserndorf) [[User:Manuela|Manuela]] ([[User talk:Manuela|talk]]) 15:21, 19 December 2025 (UTC)
+:::I don't think SyntaxHighlight needs Scribunto. It uses Pygments, which is a Python (not Lua) library (of which I actually am technically a maintainer, although I've been inactive lately by lack of time). It certainly needs something like <code>exec</code>/<code>proc_open</code>, but this wiki doesn't use a "managed" MediaWiki install (where the provider installs things for you, à la "Wordpress in one click"), it's on a VPS on which I have root access and administrate things myself, so I can install and configure anything (and <code>exec</code> is already being used to run LilyPond). The real problem is that the LilyPond code snippets are mostly added through a the special, non-standard parser tag <code><nowiki><lilypond></nowiki></code> and so the extension I wrote that defines this tag would need to support syntax highlighting.
+:::Regarding the editor toolbar, it sounds like what you want is not CharInsert but [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikiEditor WikiEditor], which I've just added. [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 16:15, 19 December 2025 (UTC)
+::::PS: I also meant to write that Pygments supports LilyPond. (I implemented this a few years ago.) [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 16:26, 19 December 2025 (UTC)
+:::::Apropos Pygments: I've submitted a [https://github.com/pygments/pygments/pull/2974 PR] to update LilyPond support some time ago. [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 17:38, 19 December 2025 (UTC)
+::::Thank you for installing this extension, this is definitely an improvement. CharInsert is a different animal. Root access is of course best, but you have to do much administration. Usually root access is very expensive when you need a provider. A long time ago I have written a Lilypond extension myself on a home server in my local network.
+::::Just in case you are asking who I am, I wrote LSR 1040, 1042, 1043, 1044 (when I remember right) and was involved in 1066 and 1067. [[User:Manuela|Manuela]] ([[User talk:Manuela|talk]]) 19:34, 19 December 2025 (UTC)
+:::::I've discovered a potential reason for activating Scribunto: Right now, I'm using the <code>query</code> MediaWiki API to download snippets for <code>makelsr.pl</code>.  However, <code>query</code> doesn't expand templates.  This means that I have to call the <code>expandtemplates</code> API, sending the unexpanded page to the Wiki server to get an expanded version back.
+:::::The Skribunto interface provides [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto/Lua_reference_manual#frame:preprocess <code>frame:preprocess</code>], which seems to unify the abovementioned two calls into a single one (I haven't tested it). Maybe this can be configured to not use Lua, in case this simplifies things. What do you think? -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 14:56, 1 January 2026 (UTC)
+::::::I don't see a problem with one extra API call per page to expand templates. Also, the function you link is a Lua API, for use in Lua modules running on the wiki, so I don't get how you want to use it outside. [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 22:02, 1 January 2026 (UTC)
+:::::::OK, <code>expandtemplates</code> it is then :-) -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 23:30, 1 January 2026 (UTC)
+== MediaWiki variables for current stable and unstable LilyPond versions ==
+Jean,
+what do you think about adding [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Variable MediaWiki variables] that indicate the current stable and unstable LilyPond versions (without the ‘micro’ value)?  I suggest
+ <nowiki>{{LILYSTABLE}}</nowiki> → 2.24
+ <nowiki>{{LILYDEVEL}}</nowiki> → 2.25
+and maybe
+ <nowiki>{{LILYSTABLEDOC}} → https://lilypond.org/docs/{{LILYSTABLE}}/Documentation</nowiki>
+ <nowiki>{{LILYDEVELDOC}} → https://lilypond.org/docs/{{LILYDEVEL}}/Documentation</nowiki>
+Such variables would reduce maintainance of yet-to-be-written templates.  In particular, I would like to add <code><nowiki>Template:convert-ly</nowiki></code>: it would tell users that the snippet in question needs conversion with <code>convert-ly</code> (showing a link to the documentation) for newer versions. -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 05:46, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
+:Sounds OK to me. [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 08:34, 28 December 2025 (UTC)
+::Great!  However, it seems to me that you have to add some piece of PHP code to do that...  This means I cannot do it by myself. -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 07:00, 30 December 2025 (UTC)
+:::Ah, do you need them to be variables as opposed to templates? [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 08:30, 30 December 2025 (UTC)
+::::Do I?  I honestly don't know.  Please advise. -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 12:36, 30 December 2025 (UTC)
+:::::Please try templates first. Seems to me that the use case for variables is when you want programmatically generated stuff like the current date. [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 19:40, 30 December 2025 (UTC)
+::::::It seems to work fine, thanks!  However, for more serious template handling I think that the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions ParserFunctions] extension would be necessary. -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 06:43, 31 December 2025 (UTC)
+:::::::Added. [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 08:01, 31 December 2025 (UTC)
+::::::::Thanks! -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 14:41, 1 January 2026 (UTC)
+== Spam users ==
+Jean, what shall we do with spam users like User:JoleenStallings?  Shall we remove them immediately?  While they don't do harm to the Wiki, they are still polluting the namespace... -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 05:21, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
+:Yes. I've just removed all their user pages and blocked them and their IP addresses. [[User:Jean Abou Samra|Jean Abou Samra]] ([[User talk:Jean Abou Samra|talk]]) 13:57, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
+::OK, thanks. -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 16:03, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
+:::Obviously the spammers have discovered this wiki. IMHO there is only one solution. Creation of new users only with verification of an admin and editing only for registered users [[User:Manuela|Manuela]] ([[User talk:Manuela|talk]]) 19:53, 11 January 2026 (UTC)
+::::Well, it's not that bad: currently, the situation can be handled manually quite easily (by watching the atom feed of this Wiki and quickly removing spam users).  However, if this becomes too much of a burden, some additional measures must be taken. -- [[User:Lemzwerg|Lemzwerg]] ([[User talk:Lemzwerg|talk]]) 05:17, 12 January 2026 (UTC)